Let me introduce you to these two terms. It should elevate the discourse regarding Elite QBs.

Assuming, of course, you want to elevate the discourse.

I think the words are actually pretty clear, but I think people forget to use them when evaluating a QB's place in history.

For instance, is it is Necessary to be an Elite QB to win a Ring? This is basically saying, if you win a Ring, you're Elite. So every QB who started a Super Bowl and won is Elite.

No, that clearly doesn't work. Consider Trent Dilfer, Phil Simms, Jeff Hostetler. Eli Manning won two, and I don't think anyone considers him Elite.

Now, is it Sufficient to be an Elite QB to win a Ring?

This is basically saying, if you're Elite, you'll win a Ring.

This isn't so easy to answer. If it truly is Sufficient, then every Elite QB will have a Ring before they retire. The first example I can almost guarantee that jumped into everyone's mind is Dan Marino.

I don't want to derail this topic pointing out that Marino had 4-5 Elite seasons, but then was just pretty good the rest of his career; how a legendary coach tried giving him a running game, a strong defense, great WRs, and a better OL and none of it worked, and how that itself might actually knock Marino out of Elite status, but that is a discussion for another day.

But what I think does work is if you acknowledge: it is really hard to win a Super Bowl. I mean, really, REALLY hard. I kind of have a rule of thumb in my mind that each step of the playoffs doubles the difficulty: it's hard to make the playoffs, twice as hard to win in the Wildcard Round, twice as hard as that to win in the Divisional Round, etc. And yet, at the same time, it's one game...there is still an Any Given Sunday aspect to it. You can be the clearly better team and still lose. That is part of what makes it really really difficult.

So if we lower the threshold to "It is Sufficient to be an Elite QB to make an NFL Championship Game," then I think many of the problems go away. You are now allowing Marino, Tarkenton, and even maybe Joe Burrow (depending on where his career eventually ends up) to be considered Elite.

And, of course, you can turn it around.

Is winning a Ring Necessary to be considered Elite?

and

Is winning a Ring Sufficient to be considered Elite?

I've gone around in my head a little, and I think this does slightly change the emphasis. These questions work best when you consider the other things that put a QB in consideration of being Elite.

Volume stats. Records. W/L record (QB Winz is a whole 'nother ball of wax I ain't touching), records in general, MVPs, AP1 awards.

Is having 1 MVP Necessary to be Elite? Is having 1 MVP Sufficient to be Elite?

I think maybe the first one is necessary, but I think it is only for more modern QBs. I don't even know when they started giving the award, and at some point, it did end up becoming a QB award. So the point where it became Necessary is extremely fuzzy.

But I also don't think it is Sufficient. One good, even one truly Great, Record Breaking year shouldn't be enough to be Elite if you have 10+ years of mediocrity. Talent itself does help prevent that, in that someone who has a truly Great year isn't likely to be just mediocre the rest of the time. But that does make Marino's entire career worth reviewing. But you can also imagine a QB coming in and setting the world on fire at some point, and then being too injured to dominate for a few years, and then retiring. Like Andrew Luck. No one considers him Elite now, but he arguably put up MVP numbers in 2014 and just got beat out by Aaron Rodgers' aura (go look it up).

So assuming a QB has a few of the other designations we consider Necessary: high volume stats, a few records, leads the NFL in a few volume stas at least 1-2 years, a few season awards...none of these are Sufficient, but I think you can see how they are still Necessary. Pull up Eli Manning's stat page, and the only thing he ever led the NFL in multiple times was INTs.

Once achieving these Necessary feats, is getting a Ring Necessary and/or Sufficient to be considered Elite?

I think you can see how Necessary establishes one high threshold, Sufficient establishes a slightly different high threshold, but Necessary and Sufficient is even higher.

Winning a Ring is not Necessary and Sufficient to be Elite, and being Elite is not Necessary and Sufficient to win a Ring.

But the combination of achievements is both Necessary and Sufficient. Win an uncontroversial MVP, have an AP1 or two, lead the league in some volume stats, be good enough for long enough that you end up on the top historical leaderboard for volume stats, and then getting a Ring is enough to cement you as Elite.

If you adopt this framework, how does this change your arguments about QBs on X?

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